Daily Archives: Thu, 22 November, 2007

Food fight between Europe and USA

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It seems the World Trade Organisation is drawing back a bit from using its financial muscle against the EU over GM food**, according to an International Herald Tribune story.

.. the World Trade Organization said Thursday that the European Union would be given more time to end blockages on imports of engineered foods like corn.
“The period during which the EU was meant to have worked this out expired, and the parties decided to extend the deadline to Jan. 11,” said Keith Rockwell, a spokesman for the WTO.
The EU had been due to end the blockages by Nov. 21……
Argentina, Canada and the United States have sued the European Union at the WTO, which ruled last year that a de facto EU ban on imports of genetically modified foods between 1984 and 2004 was illegal.

This is quite a complicated, not to mention dull, story that I can’t really summarise without losing focus on the facts, but, basically, some EU countries and politicians object to having to open their markets to GM products on ecological grounds.

This has involved some heavy international pressure for “free trade” being brought to bear on the EU. From the BBC, in 2006, after the EU had even folded and allowed US sweetcorn in.

Two years ago the moratorium was lifted and a modified strain of sweet corn, grown mainly in the US, was allowed onto the market.
But Washington continued with the WTO case because it wanted to be sure approvals for GMO sales were being decided on scientific rather than political grounds.

Well, that sounds like a laudable aim, doesn’t it? Deciding issues on scientific rather than political grounds? Who could argue with that? Hmm. So the decision to push GM foods onto countries that really really don’t want them could not possibly be politically motivated then….. The wide antagonism to GM foods in Europe is “political” while the desire of big agribiz to sell seeds and crops is merely scientific.

In a reply to my comment on his blog, the Exterminator said:

heather, you said “In the UK, where atheism is more or less the default state “…
I don’t think you have any idea how envious that makes some of us feel.

Well, really, Exterminator, everyone in the UK, (nah in Europe, well, in the rest of the world really) is constantly jealous of America. You might have to face a fair bit more Christian lunacy but the lives of individual Americans are generally much better than ours. (Ignore the political leadership for a minute. I am talking about everyday living here)

The US has a widespread incomprehension of potential ecological crisis, a subject which occupies the minds of us Europeans a lot. (The conceptual average American, not anyone in particular.) While we in Europe are sorting through our garbage like starving raccoons* – washing out pickle jars and carefully separating soft cardboard from thick paper – you are living as if the world ‘s resources are infinite, maybe because you assume you have enough power to take what you need from the rest of the world when anything does run out.

Your cars are enormous by European standards. Even some of your ghettoes have detached houses with gardens. Your petrol is laughably cheap, even when you are facing a huge fuel price increase. FFS, you don’t even have to flush your own toilets. You have public restrooms where a sensor marks when you’ve lifted your butts off the pan and flushes the lavatory with more suction than the average vacuum cleaner. We’d all like to live like that.

The only problem is that your food is often shit. And I’m an English person speaking. The English have traditionally been associated with the worst food in Europe. Cheap food in the UK is usually rubbish. UK food makes even such European oddities like the Dutch willingness to put chocolate hundreds-and-thousands (sprinkles) on bread seem moderately tasteful. But, even we don’t have products like the clearly ironically named “cheese” in an aerosol can.

So, “protectionism” aside, Europeans generally don’t trust either your food or your commitment to the environment. Hence, we tend to pressurise our politicians to keep out GM food. My question here is whether Americans don’t also pressurise your politicians to make sure you can carry on driving huge vehicles, using infinite amounts of domestic power and finding magical “food” and household products available in supermarkets that feel as big as small European states?

Scientifically, it seems a mite doomed, unless the overwhelming majority of the world’s climate and ecosystem scientists are somehow mistaken. But, politically, maintaining the benefits of your way of life is a real imperative. So, how likely are we to see Washington pushing to make sure that any other major environmental issues are

being decided on scientific rather than political grounds?

*To quote the Simpsons – and, yes, even your best bloody television is infinitely classier than ours.
** How does anyone square the very existence of GM products with a creationist refusal to accept the evolutionary science behind genetics, by the way?

Creationist Idiots Get Everywhere

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Well, I am back from my holidays now, suitably depressed at having to return to work in a cold, wet and miserable climate. It seems that while this blog was on hiatus, the lunatics and idiots were out in full force. A few weeks ago, Rob Crilly wrote a post on the Times Online Comment section titled “Church Row Evolves Over Fossil Boy.” In a nutshell, this post can be summarised as follows:

Turkana Boy, considered the most complete early human fossil, is being removed from his bomb-proof vault to take centre stage at an exhibition that curators say will provide the most complete record of the evolution of Man.

However, the collection, to be show-cased for the first time at the Nairobi National Museum after a £5 million renovation financed by the European Union, has drawn sharp criticism from evangelical Christians who deny the theory of evolution.

It is an interesting post, but as always the real insight into the nonsense which bounces around inside what ever some theists (note: not all…) use instead of brains comes in the comments. It would have made me happier if I could claim that the real off the wall comments were from Americans, but sadly this is not always the case. Take this wonderful bit of ignorance:

Any scientist who believes that evolution is the only explanation for the origins of life is more worried about his career prospects than actually conveying the truth about what is known about origins and the diversity of life.

Darwinian Evolution has minimal evidence, is statistically improbable, and because it inolves historical events is unproveable. Or as one NON Christian scientist described it a preposterous hypothesis.

Why do scientists who know the failings of the hypothesis continue to try and prevent any argument against it or stifle anyone who questions its validity?

Simply because it has become a tenet of faith for scientists which is being increasingly forced on the world and children in particular.

Everything we know about genetics tells us that Darwinian evolution is impossible so why persist in pretending it is possible let alone the only plausible explanation.
Martin, Isle of Skye

Obviously Martin has been living with his head buried to ensure no education has been allowed to seep past his ears since 1840. It constantly amazes me how people can try to sound off as if they know what they are talking about, then make phrases like “Darwinian Evolution has minimal evidence.” Even “Darwinian Evolution” is enough to show the person is an idiot. Shamefully, Martin has made lots of comments including “I did A Level Biology” at the same time as showing he failed to understand a single thing he was taught. Priceless.

Fortunately, the USA stages a comeback:

What the article is saying isn’t that these Kenyans are protesting the Theory of Darwinism/Accidental Evolution, but rather that this theory is presented as FACT or LAW. This puts a very different spin on the presentation, and you can not prove evolution. Primarily due to the lack of intermediate species to be found in today’s world or in the fossil record.

Having read quite a bit on history, I believe the Bible’s seven days mean seven ages. The specifics are not listed, nor need they be. The beginning of each age involves an explosion of life, and these can be traced in the fossil records. Every kind of fruit, tree, and animal creates more of the same, not completely different animals.
Steven, Danville, CA

Here we get the tired, repetitive issue of an idiot who doesn’t understand what a “theory” is (in the scientific sense at least). Thanks to uncountable numbers of self serving creationists trying to muddy the waters, people seem to think a scientific theory is something useless – obviously the Theory of Gravity, Quantum Theory, Theory of Relativity (and so on) are all equally false and should not be presented as “FACT or LAW.” More importantly, I cant for one second believe Steven has really read “quite a bit on history.” It strikes me as intellectually dishonest to have to re-invent choice parts of the “holy book” to keep it valid, but then that is just me.

Keeping to the creationist playbook we get:

Careful study of the bible shows that adam and eve were not mere allegorical characters. Jewish people kept accurate records of lineage in the temple and could trace their family trees back to Adam and Eve. It was one way the messiah could be authenticated and with the destruction of the temple in 70 CE no one else could claim to be Christ. When you extrapolate the time line of the bible it shows we came from adam and eve 6000 years ago. These so-called christians who believe otherwise are just that; so-called, not real, false christians.

As for spontaneous generation and evolution here’s how it sounds to me. I see a house. I notice that no matter how complex this house seems it is still countless times less complex than the simplest living organisms. You would have me believe that someone designed and built this house. I calculate the odds and come to the conclusion that if man spontaneously generated it is millions of times more likely that the house also did. Joey George, Mason City, IA

The wonderful argument from complexity. Great huh? Best part about it, is that it needs no education or understanding… “Careful study of the bible” is enough to falsify anything this nutter says.

Next we get the frothing theist, waiting for the rapture:

I’m reading all the comments and insults in this forum and I simply say the day is coming, who ever cares to believe it or not, that Jesus is returning to get the true believers who showed faith and endured hardships and yet still know in their heart, mind and soul that there shall be no more suffering for his namesake. As God created us, he gave us Free Will. He started with Adam & Eve and they disobeyed him just like man is doing today. God’s laws are basic So continue to waste your time and energy about the evolution of man because it does not matter. I’m just a grain of sand on a beach Christian woman who have that faith. I’m secure in Christ. Don’t be left behind. Syl, Ossining, USA/New York

Amazing. If heaven is going to be filled with people like this, I am happy I will stay here on Earth. Continuing the sense of nonsense we get:

Evolution is a false theory because its just a fairy tale for grown ups they tell you that a frog can turn into a prince but is not true that is impossible. The same applied to apes turning into humans.

Most of the articles I read these days about science only support the evolution theory and is very bias. The news today don’t show the other side and let creationist scientists defend creation, don’t be suprised there are hundreds of scientists in this world who support creation please let them speak also not just the evolution scientists don’t be bias thank you.

In conclusion based on the evidence that the creation scientists have presented to me I don’t believe in evolution theory I believe more in a intelligent designer. Also evolution and creation are incompatible with each other because both cannot be true so don’t try to put them together the bible don’t mention anything about evolution so don’t try to make evolution part of the christian faith.

knowledge is power. OldLiesForTheNewWorld, Providence, RI

Trying to follow this nonsense is painful. What is it with creationist/theists and appalling grammar/spelling? It is funny that this “person” concludes their opinion on Evolution is based on the evidence presented by creation scientists. It seems the fact the bible doesn’t mention evolution is the most damming evidence. How, I wonder, does OldLiesForTheNewWorld access the internet when I am fairly sure it isn’t in the bible…

The department of blind ignorance brings us this (actually, several comments allude to the same line of nonsense as this one) nugget:

The “faith” of evolutionists is greater than the faith of many Christians. Anyone who can believe that nothing plus nothing equals everything is truly an amazing person. An all-knowing, all-powerful intelligence is evident everywhere. Open your eyes and you will see. Open your hearts and you will know. Jim Thomas, Panama City, Florida

It confounds me that people can argue such a self defeating proposition. It seems that some people, however, can go a stage further:

So now evolutionists are saying gravity is just a theory! Where’s the logic? Without it everything not tied down would just float off into the atmosphere. Who determines what intelligence is but a group of scientists arguing with those who they think are less smarter than themselves. By saying that half the human race is below average intelligence is their way of reasoning that man evolved from apes! If half of the population were given the chance to increase their learning skills they would know a lot more. marilyn carrier, troy, mi

Argh! The stupidity burns! It is not evolutionists who say gravity is “just a theory.” “Science” says gravity is a theory. Creationists and IDers say theories are “Just a theory.” Argh. More madness from Florida:

There are some really ignorant comments being made. Evilutionists attacking for the sake of attacking. If evolution was held up to the same standard as creationism, it would fall flat on ts face. To use science’s own rules “if you can’t physically seit happen, then what you have is theory and conjecture.” Volution cannot be proven unless one stands around “for millions of years and documents it”. So its a theory. Theory. Get over it. vic, Palm Harbor, FL

What! I like the (un)original use of “Evilutionists” though. It made me giggle for all of a second. How clever Vic is. Evolution is held up to the same standard as creationism. That is why ID/Creationism is ridiculed…

More American brand madness comes with this bit of blinding nonsense:

Evolution is a theory. Period. The “science” behind it is really pseudoscience. If evolution were fact, there would be an abundance of fossils in transitional form found. There are none. Also, no living creatures today are in transitional form. Dogs are dogs, birds are birds, men are men, etc. There may be variations but, they are within their species. Also, the fact that bacteria become more resistant to antibiotics does not prove evolution, either. They are still bacteria. Vic, Moreno Valley, Ca

Again, the idiocy makes my head hurt. The “Dogs are dogs…” bit is amazing. Obviously there is only one type of dog, not different ones which are adapted to different climates, let alone the “transitional” types of animal where you get marsuipial lions for example. It really makes you want to cry.

I will finish my laugh at the madness with two comments. Both of which are funny enough to not need any further ridicule: (emphasis mine, minor ridicule…)

The theory of the conservation of matter states that matter can neither be created nor destroyed. And the theory of the conservation of engery states basically the same thing about energy. We have the big bang theory etc… which was caused by an energy. Think about it folks. Science proves religion. If the big bang created everything wouldn’t that go against the conservation laws? that only pushes one closer to the fact that God exists and I’m not ignorant; I’m a biology major and I took an evolution class. Look at the bible and the ENTIRE theory of evolution…they complement each other and remember the earth was created in 7 GOD DAYS (1000 years to us is like a second to him) thus, those million of years that scientists say major geological/biological events occurred have occurred in God days. I think that both sides need to research the other before they open their mouths and I just want to say that you tell Christians to have open minds same to you and I pray for you. Becca, Tobyhanna

What makes everyone think that the crowning glory of evolution is the ability to manipulate one’s environment or absorb vast amounts of knowledge. We have done these things, and to what end? We still cannibalize our own species, sickness, disease,war,famine, crime, perversion is higher than ever before. Young men and women are hopeless, dying and killing in our inner cities, or turning to more exotic drugs to numb their emptiness. Marraiges and relationships are failing. People are indeed growing older, in a society that is not able to care for them. And everything that is born, dies. Everything that is fresh, becomes stale. Everything that is clean, becomes dirty. The snow falls as white, and turns to gray. Evolution is a myth in a world where everything proceeds to maximum entropy….by our own scientific observation. The world has been contaminated by men who thought they knew more than God. And only God, will return one day to fix his creation and the mess that we made of it. Mark Cognata, Medford, USA,Massachusetts

Wonderful isn’t it.

As an aside, while I was on holiday, I went to Seaworld where I overheard a conversation in the penguin enclosure. A little boy was asking his parents why God had made Puffins and Penguins rather than just one or the other. Sadly, I never heard the reply….