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Comments on: Lies make the baby Jesus cry http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2008/12/23/lies-make-the-baby-jesus-cry/ Challenging the Zeitgeist Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:26:02 +0000 hourly 1 By: Stupidity and lies for Jesus » Why Dont You Blog? http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2008/12/23/lies-make-the-baby-jesus-cry/comment-page-1/#comment-14950 Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:26:02 +0000 http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/?p=2226#comment-14950 […] lack of evidence to support creationism causes problems and the TRUE BELIEVER© is forced to lie for Jesus. It happens all the time. In all types of debate. The stronger the persons faith, the more they […]

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By: Alun http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2008/12/23/lies-make-the-baby-jesus-cry/comment-page-1/#comment-14838 Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:33:53 +0000 http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/?p=2226#comment-14838 It has two connections. One is that you stated there was no research in this thread. There was it’s linked to in the comments above.

The second is that, if you follow the links, Ms Jessen explicitly connects her stance on abortion to Christianity. This is not a justified belief. Her misreading of the book suggests she may also be misreading other facts.

For example she implies that the process which she described was legal. Again it is shown above this is not the case. Late-term abortions are legal if a birth would endanger the life of the mother. If you follow the links and watch the video this does not seem to be the situation Ms Jessen describes. Now I could shout she is LYING, but she may be mistaken. She hasn’t met her birth mother, she may not know the full details of her birth. Thus she may be wrong without impugning her sincerity

Of course insincerity can happen. If someone is corrected a couple of times and refuses to engage in any meaningful debate then it could be time to decide they are insincere and merely an ideologue.

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By: beetlebabee http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2008/12/23/lies-make-the-baby-jesus-cry/comment-page-1/#comment-14836 Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:09:42 +0000 http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/?p=2226#comment-14836 What does the bible have to do with this discussion?

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By: Alun http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2008/12/23/lies-make-the-baby-jesus-cry/comment-page-1/#comment-14835 Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:53:52 +0000 http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/?p=2226#comment-14835 Beetlebabee you may also find the comments on the follow-up entry useful (www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2008/12/30/the-abortion-debate/#comments) where it was shown that opposition to abortion was not based in the Bible. Whatever the source of Ms Jessen’s convictions are, they are not those of the God described in that book.

I assume you’re mistaken when you say there is no counter research rather than actively lying.

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By: beetlebabee http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2008/12/23/lies-make-the-baby-jesus-cry/comment-page-1/#comment-14834 Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:56:52 +0000 http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/?p=2226#comment-14834 Perhaps you are right, perhaps truth is only unpopular here. However, if you’re going to have a post decrying someone’s life story as a lie that “makes baby Jesus cry” surely you have some proof?

“1973 – The U.S. Supreme Court, in Roe v. Wade, declared all the individual state bans on abortion during the first trimester to be unconstitutional, allowed states to regulate but not proscribe abortion during the second trimester, and allowed states to proscribe abortion during the third trimester unless abortion is in the best interest of the woman’s physical or mental health. The Court legalized abortion in all trimesters when a woman’s doctor believes the abortion is necessary for her physical or mental health.”

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By: TW http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2008/12/23/lies-make-the-baby-jesus-cry/comment-page-1/#comment-14832 Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:26:52 +0000 http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/?p=2226#comment-14832 beetlebabee, despite some rumours you may hear, the truth is rarely unpopular (Urban myths aside). However, lies wrapped up as truths are often disliked.

The entire internet is a counter research link. It would be ludicrous to post every single link that disagrees and, would largely run counter to the purpose of having a blog. Crucially, the links that lee posted are not “research” links – they are an effort to show the validity of limited sources of information.

I would hate to take away the chance for people to research something themselves, however if you go to wikipedia and search on “Roe v Wade” you can see that the US banned late term abortions prior to 1977.

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By: beetlebabee http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2008/12/23/lies-make-the-baby-jesus-cry/comment-page-1/#comment-14823 Thu, 08 Jan 2009 06:36:56 +0000 http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/?p=2226#comment-14823 Ha, go Lee! I find it interesting that there are no counter research links done here, just mocking, dismissive jabs. Kudos to Pomegranate Apple for having the guts to say something as unpopular as truth!

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By: TW http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2008/12/23/lies-make-the-baby-jesus-cry/comment-page-1/#comment-14702 Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:14:14 +0000 http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/?p=2226#comment-14702 Lee, for some reason when there are more than four or five comments the blog eats comments with links in. I have had to remove your links but I will address them at a later date with a new post.

Thanks.

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By: lee http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2008/12/23/lies-make-the-baby-jesus-cry/comment-page-1/#comment-14698 Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:14:05 +0000 http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/?p=2226#comment-14698 I had another comment, but it got eaten. This one will be more boring.

Sorry about the NRLC. I realize it’s biased, but the .gov source was ugly and harder to read. But here it is:

Gianne Jessen testified in front of US congress and British house of commons. She has a birth certificate signed by the abortionist (from the LA abortion clinic where she was born). She has medical records which say her mother was given a saline injection. When this happens the baby dies and then the mother delivers a dead baby. She was born at 6 am. The abortionist wasn’t supposed to be the office until 9.

Anyways, I think it’s fine if you all say her story isn’t effective, or it’s propaganda, or whatever. I don’t think her point was that failed abortions happen all the time–

I just think someone would have discredited her by now if it wasn’t.

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By: lee http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2008/12/23/lies-make-the-baby-jesus-cry/comment-page-1/#comment-14697 Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:01:03 +0000 http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/?p=2226#comment-14697 Sorry for the NRLC– the official congressional report. I found the original link…but it was kind of ugly and hard to read:

http:// frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/ cgi-bin /getdoc.cgi?dbname=107_cong_reports&docid= f:hr186.107

I’m impressed you did a whole post on my comment. Thanks. Gianna Jessen has testified at US congressional hearings, as well as in british parliamentary hearings. I think someone would have discredited her story by now. She’s well-known to people who know abortion on both sides of the aisle.

http:// news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/ health/4500022.stm

Her point is to stop all abortions. Whether you agree with her or not, it doesn’t help the credibility of anyone at this blog to dismiss her story as a lie. Say its propaganda designed to pull at heart strings in order to convince people that children are children even inside the womb. Say its in effective story for people to use in support of stricter abortion laws…but when you say its a “lie,” it seems like you have your head in the sand.

Stories like the girl in the video might be rare, but her cause isn’t to address only those cases. Her own story is just corollary to her mission. I think she’s interesting. Yeah, I believe her. She has medical records to prove her story. You haven’t been able to discredit anything just by saying she’s lying.

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By: The abortion debate » Why Dont You Blog? http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2008/12/23/lies-make-the-baby-jesus-cry/comment-page-1/#comment-14683 Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:34:17 +0000 http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/?p=2226#comment-14683 […] one of the commenters (Lee) has brought up a few points that I felt needed to be elevated beyond the comment thread and given a post all of their own: […]

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By: TW http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2008/12/23/lies-make-the-baby-jesus-cry/comment-page-1/#comment-14682 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 23:59:42 +0000 http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/?p=2226#comment-14682 Lee, me old chestnut. This is too good an opportunity to pass up, so I will respond to your comment with a new post. Your comments are always welcomed here and I look forward to hearing from you again.

Please, however, do you have any sources that are not biased? The National Right to Life website is pretty much leaning in a certain direction. While this does not automatically mean everything it has is biased, it taints it. It means that the information is stacked in a certain direction. Internet research needs to aware of these issues and be able to avoid them.

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