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Comments on: Atheist Belief http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2007/02/28/atheist-belief/ Challenging the Zeitgeist Thu, 01 Mar 2007 19:28:53 +0000 hourly 1 By: TW http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2007/02/28/atheist-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-2735 Thu, 01 Mar 2007 19:28:53 +0000 http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2007/02/28/atheist-belief/#comment-2735 t checked it in several days, since public buildings don’t usually collapse without the fact being publicized.</blockquote> and I couldn't agree more - although to me, the evidence for your belief is that nothing has been publicised. This is the point I was trying to make. K - I am aware there is no functional difference between not believing in God and not believing in any gods. However, when someone describes "atheists" as not believing in God, they are creating the implied assumption that God exists and atheists are going against the grain. If people walked around saying "Wow, you don't believe in Santa" it would be ridiculous, yet true. Saying "wow, you don't believe in God" seems to be a legitimate claim to make because there is an underlying assumption that God exists. I don't believe in Loki, but no one ever mentions that...]]> Sorry for the delay in replying.

Regarding the early comments, I never said belief implied faith, I said belief was a characteristic of faith. As I said in the post, believing in something without evidence is a characteristic of faith, and the term “taken on faith” is often used in such circumstances.

For me, there is a big difference between saying “I believe god does not exist” and “I do not believe god exists.” My atheism is not borne out of a different set of beliefs than a theist, it is simply the absence of belief.

Gary, you say:

I believe that my local City Hall is still standing, even though I haven’t checked it in several days, since public buildings don’t usually collapse without the fact being publicized.

and I couldn’t agree more – although to me, the evidence for your belief is that nothing has been publicised. This is the point I was trying to make.

K – I am aware there is no functional difference between not believing in God and not believing in any gods. However, when someone describes “atheists” as not believing in God, they are creating the implied assumption that God exists and atheists are going against the grain. If people walked around saying “Wow, you don’t believe in Santa” it would be ridiculous, yet true. Saying “wow, you don’t believe in God” seems to be a legitimate claim to make because there is an underlying assumption that God exists.

I don’t believe in Loki, but no one ever mentions that…

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By: Russ http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2007/02/28/atheist-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-2668 Thu, 01 Mar 2007 05:02:58 +0000 http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2007/02/28/atheist-belief/#comment-2668 Personally, my atheism is technically stronger than the “I do not hold a belief in gods” type. Broadly, I park in the a-supernaturalist camp. I have never witnessed , nor have I ever been provided evidence that anyone else has witnessed a supernatural phenomenon.

I have investigated more than a thousand supernatural claims in my decades of life and in every case the supplied evidence has been anecdotal one-offs, non-existent, or just plain ignorance.

I have no reason to think that the claims by people from times gone by would be any different. They were even less well informed than most are today, and credulity was therefore higher.

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By: TW http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2007/02/28/atheist-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-2632 Wed, 28 Feb 2007 23:59:22 +0000 http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2007/02/28/atheist-belief/#comment-2632 Thanks for all the comments – I dont have much time online at the moment so I can not respond fully, but I will do so soon.

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By: Heather http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2007/02/28/atheist-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-2610 Wed, 28 Feb 2007 19:14:59 +0000 http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2007/02/28/atheist-belief/#comment-2610 All good points. Thanks for the comments.
I can’t even really tease out the semantic differences, here but I think it was a goood exercise in clarifying thoughts, so nice one TW.

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By: nullifidian http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2007/02/28/atheist-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-2606 Wed, 28 Feb 2007 17:41:35 +0000 http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2007/02/28/atheist-belief/#comment-2606 This was precisely why I wrote the list.

When I say that I’m an atheist, I’m saying that (in shorthand) that each of the individual god concepts that I’m aware of, I reject, for whichever reason is appropriate from that particular concept of a god.

My position changes for each god-concept, some I’m not so sure about (agnostic) but don’t believe exist (weak atheist), some I’m convinced don’t exist as I see that there is strong evidence that they don’t exist (strong atheist), and some I really don’t know much about to make a reasoned decision one way or the other (ignostic atheist).

However, all of these come under the general umbrella term of atheist (either defined as “not having belief in a god” or “believing in no gods” – I take both positions independently) so I’m happy to call myself one.

And as far as “destroying atheism” goes, all someone would have to do would be to convince me that at least one god exists. All the evidence that I’ve seen so far falls very well short of achieving this.

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By: K http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2007/02/28/atheist-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-2604 Wed, 28 Feb 2007 15:54:01 +0000 http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2007/02/28/atheist-belief/#comment-2604 I think you’ve fallen into an intellectual trap set by theists who think they’re clever, and unfortunately they are a bit.

Not believing in a god (little g) or any gods (little g) includes not believing in God (aka Yaweh, etc.). If you have that belief, then it is just as correct to say you don’t believe in God (big G) as it is to say you don’t believe in any gods. It makes no difference to a Godite whether you believe in no gods or whether you simply don’t believe in God, because they only believe in one god, therefore their context of faith is that one god. Whether you don’t believe in God or don’t believe in any gods, you still don’t believe in *their* god, and that’s their problem.

Saying you “don’t believe in God” is accurate, and reflects the fact that while many do believe in God, you, as a believer in no gods, do not.

Basicaly, I don’t think you or any other atheist are being mischaracterised as “not believing in God”, because that’s true. If they then say you believe in some other god (e.g. Sat’n), then that’s a different story.

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By: Gary McGath http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2007/02/28/atheist-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-2601 Wed, 28 Feb 2007 15:28:13 +0000 http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/2007/02/28/atheist-belief/#comment-2601 I don’t understand why you say belief implies faith. In the ordinary sense of the word, there are lots of things i believe on the basis of the evidence. I believe that my local City Hall is still standing, even though I haven’t checked it in several days, since public buildings don’t usually collapse without the fact being publicized. I believe that Bigfoot, the Tooth Fairy, and Yahweh are figments of the imagination.

Faith is a particular kind of belief, arrived at with clear disregard for the evidence, on the basis of authority or tradition.

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